Testing times for nonresident families - 解析“随迁子女就地高考”之难

Transcript · 文字实录

 

Feng Xin: Nonresident parents in Beijing have been signing a petition against a policy that will continue to limit their children’s eligibility to take the national college entrance exam in the city. For the past three decades in China, high school graduates could only take the national college entrance exam, or gaokao, in their home provinces. That’s where their household permits, or hukou, were registered. However, 2011 statistics show that one in six Chinese citizens no longer lives where their hukou was registered. Having to return to one’s home province to be eligible to take the exam has created a huge problem for hundreds of thousands of Chinese families.

北京的非户籍家长最近联名签署了一份诉讼书,反对北京刚刚出台的异地高考方案。在过去的三十年里,中国的高中毕业生只能在其家乡省份参加高等教育入学考试,也就是说只能在他们的户口所在地参加高考。然而,2011年的数据显示,每六名中国公民中就有一名不在其户口所在地居住。必须回到原籍才有资格参加高考,已经给中国千百万个家庭带来了巨大的问题。

 

Parents in migrant destinations like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou have for years been advocating equal exam eligibility between resident and nonresident children. Last August, the State Council’s General Office issued a document, asking provincial governments to make policies before the end of 2012. While much of the public was anxious to hear from China’s metropolitan areas, Beijing, Shanghai and Guangdong province didn’t announce their policies until Dec 30.Four days before Beijing’s policy came out I followed a group of parents in Beijing to the city’s education commission.

在外来人口聚集的地区,如北京、上海和广东,家长们为子女能够享有与当地学生同等的考试权利已经争取了多年。去年八月,国务院办公厅发出通知要求各省级政府在2012年年底之前制定相关政策。当公众无比焦急地等待这几个特大地区公布政策时,北京、上海和广东直到1230才最终公布了各自的方案。就在北京政策出台的前四天,我跟着一些非京籍家长来到了北京市教委。

 

Liang Shuangcai moved to Beijing 12 years ago from Henan province. He works as an auditor. His 11-year-old daughter grew up in the city like many of her peers, except that the family doesn’t have Beijing hukou. Together with dozens of parents, Liang has been visiting the Beijing Municipal Commission of Education every Thursday morning since September 2012, immediately after the State Council issued the document asking provincial governments to make policies.

梁双才12年前从河南省迁来北京,他11岁的女儿和同伴们一样在这个城市长大,只是这个家庭并没有北京户口。与其他几十位家长一起,从20129月起,梁双才每周四上午都会来到北京市教委,那是在国务院发布要求各省市制定相应政策的通知之后。

 

Liang Shuangcai: Pretty soon my child will be facing the same problem. There are hundreds of thousands of migrant children nowadays. They all face one common problem. It's not just my family's problem, or my child's, but a social problem. Every time we come and hear nothing. The education commission always repeated the same line: "It's in the process. There's nothing we can tell you." Today is already the (27th )and there are only four days left. They still said they don't know.

梁双才:看着还剩几年的时间很快,马上就和别的孩子一样。目前就是在北京有几十万随迁子女,大家都面临着一个共性的问题。这个不仅仅就是我们一个家庭的问题,也不仅仅是我们一个孩子的问题,它是一个社会问题。我们每次来基本上是没有什么结果,教委仍然说“政策正在制定中,没有什么可以(告诉)你们的,具体情况不知道”。每次来都重复同样的话。今天已经(27)号了,离年底只有(4)天的时间了,仍然是不知道。

 

Feng Xin: You've come so many times and got the same reply. Why do you still come?

冯欣:来这么多次得到的答复一样,为什么还要来呢?

 

Liang Shuangcai: Well, since they don't give us a response, we are worried. We are anxious. We wanted to know if our appeal has been heard by any authorities at all.

梁双才:唉,正因为他们不给我们答复,所以我们就不放心,我们心里面不踏实,我们想问诉求引起没有引起有关部门重视。

 

While Liang’s daughter may still have a few years before going to college, Mrs Yang, a woman reluctant to provide her real name, has a daughter who is graduating from high school in just six months.

虽然梁双才的女儿还要再过几年才上大学,但是一名不愿意透露真实姓名的女士有一个即将在六个月后高中毕业的女儿。

 

Feng Xin: Has (your daughter) registered for the exam elsewhere?

冯欣:有没有在别的地方也报名呢?

 

Mrs Yang: No. I'm waiting. Our home province uses different textbooks. I don't know by what chance we will succeed in the exam. I have no way to estimate. If my daughter has to go back, it means one of the parents will have to do the same. I will have to rent an apartment, find a class for her to make up the missed curriculum, and also comfort her to adjust to the environment.

女士:没报,我在等待。回去知道教材不一样,考上的几率是,我不能说占百分之多少吧,我现在没法去评估。她回原籍面临着我们得跟回去一个,我得回去租房子,我得回去给孩子找地方去补课,我还得安抚孩子去适应那种环境。

 

Feng Xin: How many children in your daughter's class are like her?

冯欣:现在你孩子的班级像她这样的情况有多少?

 

Mrs Yang: Almost all of them have gone.

女士:几乎都走了。

 

According to media reports, as of a week after the deadline, (the 8th of January) all provinces in the Chinese mainland except Qinghai province and Tibet autonomous region announced their policies. More than half of them, like Hebei, Heilongjiang and Fujian provinces, established relatively low bars for nonresident students. They only need to provide a complete middle school or high school record in order to be eligible. Some provinces also require their parents to provide proof of a stable job and accommodation.  

据媒体报道,在国务院规定期限的一个星期后,中国大陆除青海省及西藏自治区以外的所有省份都公布了各自的方案其中超过一半的省份,如河北、黑龙江和福建制定了对非户籍学生门槛较低的政策。学生只需要提供完整的初中或高中学籍就可以就地参加高考;其中一些省份也要求家长提供有稳定工作及住所的证明。

 

Fewer than a dozen provinces set higher bars for nonresident families. In these regions, not only must students have longer school records or even hukou within the next few years, their parents also have to contribute income taxes and social security taxes for a certain number of years before the children become eligible.

有数个省份制定了对非户籍家庭门槛相对高的方案。在这些地区,不仅学生要提供更长时间的学籍证明,甚至要在今后几年取得户口才有高考的资格;他们的家长还需要缴纳个人所得税和社会保险,并达到一定年限。

 

The toughest regions, however, are China’s metropolises – namely Beijing, Shanghai and Guangdong province. The Beijing government calls its policy “transitional”, which allows nonresident students to take the entrance exam only for secondary vocational schools starting from 2013 and higher vocational schools in 2014. Not to mention, the former requires the students to provide a three-year middle school record and their parents the same length of social security contribution;  the latter requires six years. Alternatively, nonresident high school students will be allowed to take the national college entrance exam in Beijing, but they will be admitted based on their home provinces’ admission score. But how exactly this will be implemented has not been specified.

然而,最严苛的地区是中国的发达地区,如北京、上海和广东省。北京市政府称其政策为“过渡性政策”,仅允许非京籍学生从2013年起参加中等职业技术学校的入学考试;从2014年起,参加高等职业技术学校的入学考试。更不用说,前者还需要学生提供三年的初中学籍,其父母提供三年的社保缴纳记录;而高等职业院校的入学考试资格则需要六年的证明。非京籍的高中毕业生也可以在北京参加高考,但他们只能按照原籍的分数线被录取,这究竟如何操作,方案却并未规定。

 

Shanghai binds nonresident children’s exam eligibility with its residence permit system. Only the children of those parents who hold a Pass A will be able to take the national college entrance exam in the city starting from 2014. But very few nonresidents in Shanghai meet the city’s requirements to receive a Pass A. Guangdong province will allow children whose parents have a residence permit and have contributed social security taxes for three years to take the exam in 2016, and the children also have to provide a complete high school record in Guangdong.

上海将非户籍考生的高考资格与其居住证制度捆绑在一起。只有持上海市居住证A证居民的子女可以从2014年起在上海参加高考,但是很少有人能够达到获得A证的条件。广东省从2016年起将允许缴纳了三年社保,并取得广东省居住证的居民子女参加高考,同时孩子必须提供完整的高中学籍。

但是如果细看,

 

However, if we look closely, we can find the blue provinces that set low bars for nonresidents are traditionally hometowns of migrant workers who leave for better opportunities. In other words, the proportion of nonresidents in the population is small. Take Shandong province as an example. According to its education department, only 8 percent of the nearly 10 million school children were nonresidents as of 2011. Local media estimate by 2014 there will be 15,000 nonresident students taking the national college entrance exam, which will have little effect on the overall student proportions.

我们会发现那些设置低门槛的蓝色省份是传统的流动人口输出地,人们离开本地以寻求更多机会。换句话说,这些地方的外来人口比例很小。以山东省为例,根据山东省教育厅,2011年全省近1000万义务教育学生中,只有8%是非户籍学生。当地媒体估计,到2014年全省只有1.5万非户籍学生参加高考这对学生的整体构成几乎没有影响。

 

However, cities like Beijing present a completely different scenario. The city’s education commission said out of its 1 million school children, 40 percent are nonresident students.

但是像在北京的这样的城市,情况完全不同。北京市教委估计在本市100万受义务教育的学生中,40%的是非户籍学生。

 

In terms of the orange provinces, some, like Guizhou and Yunnan provinces, although not a hotspot for migrant workers, usually post a relatively low admission score.

一些橙色的省份,如贵州和云南,虽然不是移动人口的目的地,历来享受着较低的高考录取分数线。

 

Beijing's policy is not what the parents were hoping for. Hu Yang, who goes by her Internet name, has been a volunteer for the advocacy group for three years. She was shocked when she first heard about the new policy.

北京的政策并不是家长们所期望的。胡杨(网名)是一位家长志愿者,为争取随迁子女高考奔走了三年。新出台的方案令她非常震惊。

 

Hu Yang: I was angry and heartbroken. I was sad because we've been fighting for three years. I suffered from all sorts of pressure, but this is what I got. I just feel the government just didn't care about our appeal at all. It means children who have had nine years of compulsory education, whose parents have contributed social security taxes, only get to go to vocational schools. I think many children are outstanding students. They could have made it to good universities. The Beijing Education Commission basically didn't follow the Ministry of Education's order to make policies. It basically handed in a blank answer sheet. This is not gaokao policy. This is vocational school policy.

胡杨:我的第一个反应我是又生气又伤心,生气就是说整整争取了三年了, 精神受到各个方面的压力,竟然能出一个这样的政策,就感觉好像政府没把我们这群人的民生诉求放在心上,就不在乎我们。孩子有了九年义务了以后就让这个孩子, 还要加上爸爸妈妈社保,让孩子读中职。我觉得有许多孩子很优秀的,他其实可以上大学上本科,上更好的学校。北京市教委出台的政策几乎就是没有按照国家教育部的要求在出,你等于是出了白卷,这不叫异地高考政策,这叫异地高考中职高职政策。

 

While nonresident parents in Beijing are disappointed in the new policy, their opponents, like Liu Yang, are not happy either. Liu has been fighting against the parent advocates by joining a few active local bloggers to express their opposing voices. His blog and micro-blog has attracted thousands of followers. 

北京的非户籍家长对新出台的方案很失望,他们的反对者,比如刘洋,也对这个方案不满意。刘洋加入了本地几个活跃的博客作者通过微博和博客表达他们反对的声音。他吸引了上千的粉丝。

 

Feng Xin: Liu Yang, I noticed that people who care about the issue are mostly parents. You are not a parent. Why do you pay so much attention to it?

 

冯欣:刘洋,我注意到关注异地高考这个事情比较多的大部分是家长,你并不是家长为什么对这个事情也这么关注?

 

Liu Yang: I think this is not only an education issue. We as Beijing residents not only care about education, but the city's capacity to take in migrants. If (the government) were to loosen the exam constraints, it would have to set some (time) threshold, like two or three years. This would encourage some people to move to Beijing two or three years earlier. Such one-way population flow brought by the policy is not what the city can bear.

刘洋:因为这个问题本身现在体现出来的是在教育这个环节上,其实我们北京人关心的并不仅仅是教育,它是一个城市容纳外来人口的极限的问题。你比方说现在如果你要开放异地高考,你肯定会设置门槛,你设置门槛比方说三年,比方说两年,其实是会让一些人提前三年两年来到北京。就在这种想法底下带来无序的人口的单向流动,是这个城市不能承受的。

 

Feng Xin: I don't know if you've met any nonresident parents.

冯欣:我不知道你有没有接触过一些非京籍家长?

 

Liu Yang: Yes.

刘洋:接触过。

 

Feng Xin: What reason do you think they have for the nonresident exam eligibility to be granted?

冯欣:你认为他们想要推行异地高考的理由是什么?

 

Liu Yang: I think their reason is one word: fairness. However, what is educational fairness? I think we already have educational fairness. If Beijing or Shanghai kids could take the college entrance exam in any city by holding a Beijing or Shanghai ID card, but others couldn't, OK, that would be unfair. But if Beijing or Shanghai kids can only take the exam in their home regions, how is it unfair? Also, it would be unfair to those who are originally not from Beijing but have worked so hard to acquire a Beijing hukou.

刘洋:他们的理由就是,公平,两个字。其实我认为,所谓的教育公平,什么叫教育公平?现在本身就是教育公平。你说如果北京上海的孩子,拿着我北京上海的身份证,如果我到哪一个城市都能参加高考,(而)别人不行,OK,那叫不公平。但是如果北京上海的孩子也只能在自己的户籍所在地参加高考怎么叫不公平?而且包括那些现在已经通过了自己非常艰难的努力获得了北京户籍的原本并非是北京籍人口的这些同志来说,也不是很公平。

 

Feng Xin: Then how do we solve the education and exam problems of those children who were born in Beijing and just don't have the city's hukou?

冯欣:比如说像这样一部分从小生长在北京的,只是户籍不在北京的孩子,那他们的考试,他们的教育(问题)怎么解决呢?

 

Liu Yang: I think it is definitely hard to solve now. From a humane point of view, we shouldn't bar the children from going to school. But there are two issues. First, high school education is not compulsory education. In terms of the child, you don't have to go to high school. In terms of the government, it's no longer obliged to provide you with compulsory education. It's a matter of obligation for both sides. That's one issue. Another…Yes, I feel sorry for them. But does this have to be solved by the government? In any case if I were a parent, I wouldn't put my child in such an unstable situation, where I know he wouldn't be allowed to take the exam here but still let him attend schools here for more than 10 years after he was born. I wouldn't.

刘洋:我认为这个现在确实比较难解决,从人道的角度来说,不应该不让人家去念书,但是现在有两个问题,第一个就是本身高中阶段的教育它不是义务教育,你作为孩子来说,你没有接受教育的义务,我可以不念高中了。对于政府来说,我没有给你提供教育的义务了,这是双方的义务。一方面是这个,再一方面就是我觉得,是可怜,但是一定就得政府来解决么?反正我如果作为家长,我不会把我的孩子置于这种不稳定的状态,我知道他明明是不能参加高考,但是我非让他在这接受十几年的教育,从出生就在这儿,我不会这样的。

 

Feng Xin: Beijing just announced a “transitional” policy. What do you think of it?

冯欣:北京市教委刚刚公布了一个过渡性方案,您对这个方案怎么看?

 

Liu Yang: I strongly disapprove of it. I think this policy took away some of the vocational education resources to make a compromise. And also this policy speaks about one word: drag. It says it's transitional policy. But who is going to make the final version? It didn't say. It might well just be left for the next government to solve the issue.

刘洋:很反对这个方案,我认为这个方案其实拿了高职,拿了一部分的高考资源去做了一些妥协,而且这个政策里面还有一个关键点是拖,它说了自己是一个过渡性政策,那最终的政策由谁来定呢?没有说。很有可能到最后就是下一任的政府来解决这个问题。

 

 

In fact, the discussion of whether to allow nonresident students to take the college entrance exam outside the limits of their hukou has been going on for years. Zhu Yongxin is a member of the National People's Congress' Standing Committee. He submitted a proposal to the education and public security ministries during China's two political sessions in 2012.

事实上,有关是否允许随迁子女在就读地不因户籍的限制

而参加高考已进行了多年。朱永新是全国人大常委,在2012年两会时,他向教育部和公安部提交了一项建议。

 

Feng Xin: In the last few days, we finally saw cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou brought out their policies. First of all, are you satisfied with the current outcome?

冯欣:那么终于在最后几天,也等到了北京、上海、广州这些大城市的方案。那么,您对目前的结果满意吗?

 

Zhu Yongxin: I should say generally I'm satisfied that almost all provinces have made their policies. But I have some reservations in terms of some specific content. I think there is still room where we could've done better.

朱永新:应该说首先大家能够把方案出来总体上是满意的,对出来的内容来说我觉得还是有保留的意见,我觉得还是有一些空间可以做得更好。

 

Feng Xin: For example?

冯欣:比如呢?

 

Zhu Yongxin: Like Beijing's policy. Candidates may take the exam in Beijing but have to be admitted based on their home provinces' admission score in 2014. I think policies like this could have been made more open to allow children of those parents who have been working and paying taxes in Beijing for a long time to be admitted here, because this is a matter of civil rights.

朱永新:比如像北京的方案,考生还要在北京考试,录取还得回本地去录取,另外到04年才开始实行。所以像这样的政策我觉得完全可以更开放一些,让一些长期在北京就读,父母亲在北京工作就读纳税的这些孩子实际上他完全可以在北京录取,因为这个涉及到一个公民权和教育权的问题。

 

Feng Xin: Many people are worried about the possibility of “gaokao” immigration.

冯欣:很多人担心高考移民的这种可能性。

 

Zhu Yongxin: This is of course possible. Since cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou have more and better educational resources than rural areas and other regions, some people bring their kids to live here not because they work here but because they want their children to go to schools here. Then, they become “gaokao” immigrants. This is possible. However, reality is reality, because it's not easy at all to move to Beijing. First you have to find a place to live. Given Beijing's housing prices, the cost of living is very high in the first place. And secondly, it's not easy to find a job, either.

朱永新:高考移民当然是有可能的。因为北京相对来说,上海、北京、广州,其他一些城市它的优质教育资源比较多,教育品质比农村、比其他地区好得多。所以有些人不是来打工把孩子带过来,他就是为了送孩子来读书过来打工,那就是成为了一个高考移民或者说就学移民,这种情况是有可能发生的。可能是可能,现实是现实。因为到北京来打工也不是一件容易的事情,因为你要找住的地方,北京的房价那么贵,首先它的生活成本非常之高。第二,他要找工作也不是件容易的事情。

 

Feng Xin: Do you think the hukou system is what caused the problem all these years?

冯欣:那您认为户籍制度是不是导致异地高考这个问题得不到解决的一个根本原因?

 

Zhu Yongxin: There are two reasons. One is the hukou system, which divides people into rural residents and urban residents and puts a big label on everybody. If you are a rural resident, you stay in the countryside. If you are an urban resident, then you stay in the city. People rarely can move freely. If we reform the hukou system and allow people to migrate freely where they can become residents of a city naturally after a certain number of years, then the problem will naturally be solved.

朱永新:是两个原因,一个是户籍制度,一个是中国长期的城乡二元结构导致了这个户籍制度,每个人都贴上了严重的标签。农村的就在农村,城市的就在城市。这个城市的就在这个城市,那个城市的就在另外一个城市,他很少能够自由地迁徙。如果说户籍制度的变革以后可以自由地迁徙,可以居住多少年以后就自然是这个城市的居民,自动取得户籍,那么这些问题就自然而然解决了。其次就是录取方法,现在我们的录取是以省为单位的,

 

The second reason is the province-based system of admitting students. I once suggested we diminish the recruitment offices in provinces and give the recruitment power back to universities. Then the recruitment would be based on categories of national, provincial, municipal and private universities. All the national universities would be playing in one chess game. Universities like Peking and Tsinghua shouldn't give too much lenience to certain regions, except disadvantaged regions like Xinjiang and Tibet, as well as minority groups. Everybody else should compete fairly.

但是我曾经建议取消省的招办,把录取的权利整个交给学校。这样一来,整个的录取应该走国立大学、省立大学、市立大学、民办大学的不同道路。如果国内大学就全国一盘棋,像北大清华这样的学校照例不应该有太多的照顾,要照顾在区域上照顾,搞区域的配额制度是可以的,它只是针对弱势区域,比如说新疆、西藏,每年要保证多少少数民族,采取配额制度自然就可以。其他的我觉得就应该公平竞争。

 

It will be helpful to take a look at how China’s universities recruit students in the first place. If we divide universities by their administrative subordination, there are usually two categories: universities managed by the Ministry of Education as well as other central government agencies, and universities managed by provincial governments.  Among about 2,000 universities in China, more than 90 percent are provincial universities. Every year, each university needs to submit a detailed recruitment plan to be approved by its supervision department. While central universities recruit students from all over the country, provincial universities mainly recruit students from home, meaning those with hukou in that province. If they plan to recruit students outside their home provinces, the local education department has to report such plans to the Ministry of Education for approval.

我们不妨先来看一看中国大学是如何招生的。如果我们将大学按隶属关系划分,通常有两类:一类是由教育部和其他中央政府机构主管的央属大学,二是由省级政府主管的省属大学。在中国2000多所大学中,90%以上的是省属大学。每年,每所大学需要向主管部门提交一份详细的招生计划,并获得许可才能招生。央属大学可在全国范围内招生,而省属大学主要在本省招生,也就是说招生对象是那些有本省户口的学生。如果省属大学想要招收外省学生,当地教育部门需要把招生计划上报给教育部获得许可。

 

However, the distribution of universities in China is extremely uneven. Most central universities are located in mega cities like Beijing and Shanghai; most of these are the best universities.According to China Education Online, for every 10,000 exam candidates, there are 11 universities in Beijing and 10 in Shanghai. But the number drops to 2 in Hubei, Shandong and Shaanxi provinces and below two in Henan province. However, in 2012, Henan had about 850,000 exam candidates and Beijing only 76,000. That’s according to the Ministry of Education’s numbers.

然而,中国大学在国内的分布极不均衡。多数央属大学都位于像北京、上海这样的大城市,而且很多这些院校都是国内最好的大学。据中国教育在线统计,每1万名考生中,北京考生分配到的本地高校数量是11所,上海10所但是湖北、山东、陕西省的考生仅能分配到2所,河南省考生2所以下。然而,2012年河南大约有85万考生,北京只有7.6万名,以上是根据教育部提供的数据。

 

Take Peking University as an example. As one of China’s best universities, it is supervised by the Ministry of Education. China Education Online estimates in 2011 Peking University admitted about 32 students for every 10,000 Beijing candidates. But it accepted less than one per 10,000 from Henan, Hubei and Shandong provinces. That means Beijing’s exam candidates are 47 times more likely to get in Peking University than candidates from Henan.

以北京大学为例,作为中国最好的大学之一,北大由教育部监管。中国教育在线估计,2011年每1万名北京考生中有32人被北京大学录取。而河南、湖北、山东省每万名考生只有不到1人被北大录取。这意味着北京考生被北大录取的几率是河南考生的47倍。

 

But how does the system make it difficult to allow nonresident students to take the national college entrance exam without the constraints of their hukou? I directed this question to Xiong Bingqi, vice-president at the 21 Century Education Research Institute.

那么这样的制度又是如何让非户籍学生就地参加高考变得困难呢?我采访了21世纪教育研究院副院长熊丙奇。

 

Feng Xin: Dr Xiong, China's universities recruit students based on provinces. I have a question: How do universities decide how many students they are going to admit from different regions? How do they calculate the quota?

冯欣:博士,我们国家实行三省按计划集中录取制度,那么我有一个问题,就是各个大学是怎么样决定每年在不同的地区招收多少学生的呢?它这个名额是怎么算出来的?

 

Xiong Bingqi: The recruitment quota is a result of power struggle among the university, the Ministry of Education and the local government. It's usually based on the university and local government's funding, and the student quota the university traditionally gives to one region. There isn't a strict way to work out the student quota.

熊丙奇:来确定每个学校在这个地方的招生计划它是根据大学、教育部,还有地方这三方的力量博弈最后形成的结果。它往往会看这个地方跟学校投入有多少,再就是这个学校以前在这个地方投了多少指标,至于究竟在这个地方投放多少指标没有一个明确的说法。

 

Feng Xin: Then, what's the problem with this system?

冯欣:那么这个制度有什么问题呢?

 

Xiong Bingqi: This province-based recruitment system is an unfair one to start with. It relies heavily on the local government's administration and creates huge geographical discrepancies in deciding student quota. It also encourages local education authorities to set criteria for exam registration based on such quotas. That's why candidates need to have hukou to be eligible for the exam. If the current constraints on nonresident students are loosened, people will naturally think about how many migrants there are. If there aren't, the problem can be solved quite easily. The chances of nonresident candidates filling up student quotas are small. Also, the government can adjust the student quota under such circumstances. Different interests might be balanced eventually.

熊丙奇:分省按计划录取制度本身就不是一个公平的制度,它自然而然就会强调一个行政的特点,它本身就制造了地区与地区之间教育的不公平,包括教育指标配置的不均衡,再一个是引导了各个地方按照这个教育指标来设置高考报名条件。我国的高考按户籍报名就是靠这个制度来的。那么现在开放异地高考,自然而然他们就会考虑第一,流如人口有多少,你如果流动人口不多,这个问题还好解决,我们高考的指标被流动人口所瓜分的可能性就比较小。另外一个,国家可以在这种情况下调整这个指标,最后大家的利益可能实现一个很好的平衡。

 

But in migrant destinations like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangdong – the exam competition in Beijing is not very intense but in Guangdong it is more intense – the case would be different. How do we balance different interests between residents and nonresidents? If we don't break up the current system but only hope to make a breakthrough to lift the hukou constraints, we are in fact continuing the unfair system. I don't see much room for fairness.

但是对于流动人口很多的北京上海和广东,再加上它们高考的竞争不是多么激烈,像北京和上海广东相对来说是比较激烈的。这样以来就会导致一个结果,就是我开放异地高考那么多流入人口来,本地人口的利益和外来人口怎么样去平衡。你现在这个制度不打破,希望的是在这个制度之下开放异地高考,在目前户籍的报名限制上,放开一条口子,实际上还是不公平的继续,在一个本身不公平的制度之上要谋取公平显然是没有多大空间的。

 

Feng Xin: All right. Thank you, Dr Xiong.

冯欣:好的,谢谢您,博士。

 

To what extent will nonresident students influence resident students' chances of being admitted to universities? I visited Yang Dongping, professor in education at the Beijing Institute of Technology. He's been involved in reforming China's college entrance exam system for years.

究竟在多大程度上非户籍学生会影响本地考生被大学录取的机率?我走访了北京理工大学的杨东平教授。我走访了北京理工大学的杨东平教授。他多年来参与中国的高考改革。

 

Feng Xin: Opponents hold a view that once nonresidents are allowed to take the exam in cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, the local candidates' interests will be harmed. What do you think?

冯欣:反对人士中有一个观点,就是一旦放开异地高考,在北京、上海、广州这些大城市,会损害本地户籍子女的利益。那么您怎么看呢?

 

Yang Dongping: In fact I don't think this is an issue to be worried about. If we look at the big picture, the number of exam candidates is declining. But the size of university recruitment is growing slowly. But the size of university recruitment is growing slowly. From a demand-supply point of view, local exam candidates' interests will hardly be affected. However, in regions like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangdong, white-collar parents are more concerned about the fairness of getting into central universities, or research universities, across different regions, because theoretically, central universities are open to candidates all over the nation. But in reality, they have serious problems with giving too much lenience to local residents. For example, (central) universities in Shanghai recruit a large portion of Shanghai students, and Beijing does the same. To some extent, this is against the principle of fairness. Therefore, I believe central universities' student quotas across provinces should be further balanced.

杨东平:实际上我个人认为这个问题,倒并不是需要特别过虑的。从整体的形式来看,考生的总量是在降低,高校的招生规模还在缓慢地增长。也就是说,高校扩招的进程还在持续,所以从供求关系来讲,这个对本地考生的利益,不会有很明显的影响。但是,在北、上、广,或者很多地方,白领以上的这些考生家长,他更关注的是央属高校。所谓叫研究型大学,或者叫优质高等教育资源的地域公平问题。因为央属高校理论上,它是面向全国考生的,但是现在,在这些年的现实当中,它的本地化的倾向比较严重。比如讲,上海的高校上海的考生比例特别大,北京的高校,北京的比例也特别大。在某种程度上,这是违反公正的原则,所以我个人认为,央属高校的省域之间的均衡应该进一步加强。

 

Feng Xin: Let's say we have two categories of universities, central universities and provincial universities. It is the central universities that mostly need to be reformed. Is that correct?

冯欣:比如说,我们大学分作几类,一类是中央直属的这种大学,另外一类是省际的大学,最需要改进的是这些央属大学。可不可以这么理解?

 

Yang Dongping: No. There are many problems with nonresident students not having exam eligibility. The supply of higher educational resources is only one facet. More importantly, there are high school and primary school resources. According to the Beijing government's numbers, there are more than 400,000 nonresident school children in Beijing, which is 40.9% of all school children. In Shanghai, this number has probably reached over 50%. What does this mean? By 2020primary schools will need 300,000 more places and middle schools 115,000. High schools will also need to provide more places accordingly. That's the case without lifting the hukou limits for nonresident students. If the limits are lifted, and people get a signal that their children can take the exam once they have three, five or eight years of school records, the number will keep growing significantly. So that's the biggest pressure for cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. It's the pressure of compulsory education, not just how the universities give quotas.

杨东平:不,这个异地高考的问题很多。高等教育资源和研究型大学的资源的供应只是一个方面更重要的是高中教育资源和基础教育资源。按现在北京市的这个数据,义务教育阶段非京籍的人口40多万,已经占基础教育阶段的在校生的40.9%,上海的话,这个数字可能已经超过50%。那么这个什么意思呢?到2020年,(北京)小学阶段还要增加30万个学位,初中阶段要增加11万个学位,高中阶段的话,也会相应地增加。也就是说, 这是在异地高考政策还没有启动之前现在的现状,那么如果这个政策启动之后,如果给大家一个信号,

就是说如果你在京学籍满三年、满五年、满八年,就可以在京参加高考的话,这个数字还会大幅度增加。所以这个是北、上、广这些大城市的最大的压力,基础教育的压力,不仅仅是高校招生的名额怎么分配。

 

Feng Xin: I heard many people mention a phrase "educational capacity." How is "educational capacity" calculated? How do we know how much educational capacity a city can provide?

冯欣:我听到很多人提到一个词,叫做“教育资源承载能力”。这个教育资源承载能力是怎么算出来的?我们怎么知道一个城市到底能够承载多少的教育(人口)?

 

Yang Dongping: Actually, it's not about the capacity to provide educational resources. It's about a city's population capacity. Like Beijing, how big should the city's size be? How much water and land resources can be used? A megacity's population control is a very complicated matter. Attempting to control population through education is not realistic, I think. This has been proved over the years. In fact, population control should be done through splitting the city's multiple functions rather than limiting children's opportunities to receive compulsory education. It's not the way to go.

杨东平:这个其实讲的城市的承载能力,讲的主要不是教育资源,是指城市的资源。比如讲北京市,它的城市规模应该多大,它的水资源、土地资源可以使用的程度,所以大城市的人口控制问题本身是一个非常复杂的问题,企图单纯地通过教育来控制人口规模,我个人认为是不真实的、不现实的,这么多年来也已经证明了这一点。实际上,大城市的人口控制必须通过疏解城市功能,而不是靠单向的所谓不给他解决义务教育的问题,不是通过这种方式。

 

These problems only demonstrate the degree of difficulty in addressing nonresident students' exam eligibility Many nonresident parents and scholars stress constitutional rights, rather than serve as the basis of policy-making. but local governments and authorities pay more attention to practicality So we should not have too many expectations from the policy. The problem can't be solved instantly. It needs a period of time for monitoring policy effects. For example, Shanghai has lifted the bars on higher vocational education. How many people will then flood to the city? Nobody knows. For example, if Beijing announces a requirement for six years of school record, how many migrants will then move to the city? What if the bar is set for five years? It's impossible to make an accurate prediction.

但是这些问题只是告诉我们异地高考这个政策的难度,并不是说这是限制这个政策、决策的一个依据。很多外地的家长或者有些学者强调的是宪法的平等权力但是对于主管部门、地方政府,它关注的主要是它的可操作性、可实现性。所以,通常我们说的对这个政策不能期望过高,不可能过快、过急,要有一个观测和试验的过程。比如讲,像上海它现在说开放高等职业教育,它放开这个口,然后再看一看会有多少人进入,这个概念大概是多少,谁都不知道。比如说,北京市,如果我宣布门槛是六年的连续学籍,那么会有多少人融入?如果是五年的话会有多少人融入?这个东西是现在不可能事先做出精确的预测的。

 

Feng Xin: So are we trapped in a dilemma? On the one hand, it's the education equality granted by the Constitution. On the other hand, it's the megacities' population capacity. Do we only get one option?

冯欣:我们现在是不是似乎陷入了一个两难的境地?一方面是宪法赋予公民的平等的受教育权,另外一方面是大城市承载人口的能力,是不是这两个方面我们必须做一个取舍呢?

 

Yang Dongping: No, absolutely no. Education equality granted by the Constitution is already demonstrated in the current system. Admitting students based on provinces doesn't make it unconstitutional. It's not that only people who come to Beijing to study have their constitutional rights fulfilled. Do you think we can say that?

杨东平:完全不是这样。宪法的平等权利在现在的考试资格当中也已经体现了,不是说你在本省录取就违反了宪法权利,很难这么说。不是说都到北京来上学才叫落实了宪法权利,能这么说吗,你觉得?

 

Feng Xin: Well, let's say Beijing's policy. Many nonresident students can only take part in entrance exams for vocational schools. But maybe with their capability, they could've made it to a proper university.

冯欣:但比如说,像这次新方案出台,很多这个没有北京户籍的这些子女,他只能参加高职和中职的考试,但也许这些孩子本身能力,完全可以考一个非常好的一本。

 

Yang Dongping: In fact, they will choose to go back to their home provinces to take the exam. Let's put it this way. We need to pay attention to two groups. One is the white-collar parent group, which care more about research universities. They came to Beijing with more hopes to enjoy these resources. Then there are masses of ordinary migrant workers. They care more about ordinary educational resources. Their appeals are totally different. Under the current hukou system, it is difficult to reform the national college entrance exam system alone. I think what's more important is not that we discuss whether the policies are ideal or scientific today but that it made the first and an important step. It's a starting point, and we can keep looking.

杨东平:实际上,他们会选择回本省参加名校考试。或者这么说,我们要关注两个群体,一个是关注白领以上的,关注研究型大学也就是优质教育资源的群体,他们到北京来,更大程度是为了争取这个资源。那么还有大量的是普通的公众,或者是农民工的随迁子女,他们关注的是普通教育资源,这两个诉求是完全不一样的。在存在户籍制度的前提下,要让高考单独进行改革,它难就难在这儿。我觉得特别重要的并不在于,我们今天一定要评价现有的这个方案是否科学,是否理想。最重要的价值,它迈出了第一步,是一个起点,我们可以在这个起点上往前继续探索。

 

Yang believes it's difficult to predict how many nonresident students schools in megacities can educate once the hukou limits are lifted. But Zhu believes it is possible.

杨东平认为,现在很难精确地估算出一旦高考的户籍限制被取消,特大城市到底能承受多少非户籍学生,但是朱永新认为这有可能估算出来。

 

Zhu Yongxin: I think there's nothing wrong with Beijing being cautious in seeking solutions. But I think it should do a quantitative study, finding out how many students there will be in Beijing, how many classrooms and teachers will be needed, and how much the city will be able to provide. With such capacity, how many people can be allowed to move in? If we deduct the number based on this logic, the problem can be solved. This is not a very difficult mathematical model. If we decide to do it, we can definitely make it happen. If this can't be done city-wise, it can at least be done at a district level. If not in districts, every block should do the survey. We should be able to find out.

朱永新:北京这样一种谨慎的放开或者谨慎的探索,本身并没有什么错。最关键的就是它应该做一个量化的预测。目前我要摸清楚北京有多少学生,然后根据这个我建校舍,我引进师资,我能够承载的教育能力配备大概是多少,有这样的配备根据我的能力每年放多少,如果我根据放多少来倒推,这个问题就可以解决了,这个并不是很难的数学模型,我觉得只要下决心做,还是能够做到的。大的北京不能做,每个区要去做,每个区不能做每个街道要做,网络化的管理,应该能够搞得清楚。

Archive · 往期

Digest China 2012 Yearbook - 《解析中国》2012年鉴

Digest China presents you with a nine-chapter, multimedia yearbook and invites you to look back at 2012. --《解析中国》以九个章节为您全新呈现一本多媒体 “年鉴”,邀您一起回望中国的2012。

Test the way to your future in government
中国年轻人,为何挤国考?

Why do more and more young people in China want to work for the government?
过去10年参加国考的人数增长了15倍,为什么越来越多的中国年轻人想在政府部门工作?

Watching China’s budget
解析中国预算

How can ordinary people make sense of China's budget?
普通人如何能弄懂中国的预算?

What makes it difficult for graduates to find jobs?
大学生就业难,难在哪?

Why do we often hear stories about college graduates unable to find jobs? -- 为什么我们经常听到毕业生找不到工作的事?

Does China have enough jobs for college graduates?招工难,难在哪?

What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers? And what makes it difficult for job seekers to find such employers? 是什么造成了用人单位的“招工难”?又是什么让求职者难以找到这些雇主?

Does China have enough money to fund its pensioners?
中国有没有足够的养老钱?

How much money can we receive after we retire? At what age should we start planning our retirement? 退休后我们到底能领多少钱?到什么年龄应该计划养老问题?

Should Chinese people retire later?
中国人是否应该晚退休?

In what social context is the government’s proposal to push back China's retirement age rooted? 6月5日,人力资源和社会保障部提出,未来会逐步将退休年龄推迟五年。这样做有什么深层的社会原因?

Illegal immigrants: China's rise as a land of opportunity?
“三非”外国人:中国成为机会之地?

Is the increase of incidents involving illegal immigrants a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity? -- "三非"外国人日益增多,是否意味着中国成为机会的土壤?
 

Topic · 本期话题

Nonresident parents in Beijing have been signing a petition against a policy that will continue to limit their children’s eligibility to take the national college entrance exam in the city. For the past three decades in China, high school graduates could only take the national college entrance exam, or gaokao, in their home provinces. That’s where their hukou, or household permits, were registered. However, 2011 statistics show that one in six Chinese citizens no longer lives where their hukou was registered. Having to return to one's home province in order to be eligible to take the national college entrance exam has created a huge problem for hundreds of thousands of Chinese families.

北京的非户籍家长近日联名向教育部递交了一份诉讼书,反对北京市刚刚出台的异地高考方案。在过去的三十年里,中国的高中毕业生只能在其家乡省份参加高考,即他们的户口所在地。然而,2011年的数据显示,每六名中国公民中就有一名不在其户口所在地居住。必须回到原籍才有资格参加高考,给中国千百万个家庭带来了巨大的问题。

Poll · 投票

Guest profile · 嘉宾

The host · 主持人

Having worked as a journalist in China, the United Kingdom and the United States, Feng Xin finds her passion for journalism runs as high as it did the first day she stepped into this profession. Read more>>>

无论在英国、美国还是中国做记者,冯欣对新闻的热情始终如她第一天跨入这个行业时那么高。更多内容>>>

Email the host

与主持人对话:邮件微博